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View Full Version : Uh yeah, league rules.


KGtheway2B
03-16-2006, 12:39 AM
Here's some stuff I typed up. I got lazy and didn't bother finishing or organizing it: so blah.
League Play in Sourceforts requires a greater amount of honesty and maturity then league play in many other games. Because of this, players in matches are expected to know and understand the following rules. Repeated offenses of the "primary rule," as well as general disrespect and vulgarity may result in expulsion from league.

Primary Rule:
During all rounds of the Clan Match there must be a path between buildwall and flag. This path may consist of obstacles however the clearing of these obstacles must not require the use of sprint at any time.

If it is aggreed by a greater than 50% majority (determined by server-side vote) that this "primary rule" is broken, the map restarts and scores are nullified. [Exception: if the team NOT accused of breaking the rule is has a greater team score than that team may choose to accept victory that map and then continue on to play the next map.]

A map consists of [B] build rounds and [B] fight rounds.

Length of first build round: <C>
Length of first combat round: <D>
Length of second build round: <E>
Length of second combat round: <D>
Length of third build round: <E>
Length of third combat round: <D>
Length of fourth build round: <E>
Length of fourth combat round: <D>


Outcome of Clan Match is determined by number of maps won solely.
Clan Match consists of 3 maps with ( 2 X [B] ) rounds each.
Winner of map is determined by team score solely.
If map results in draw (team scores are equal) play continues to next map.
If at the end of 3 maps the map scores are equal, Clan Match is a Draw.

Falldamage will be scaled to height dropped. (mp_falldamage 1)

*Maxspeed will be set to <F> (i.e.: sv_maxspeed <F> )
*Building during combat rounds is prohibited at all times. Offenders (picked out by successful >50% server-side vote) will be removed and clan will not be allowed to bring replacement.

*Players must adhere to 1.9.1 Class limits.
All abilities of all classes are allowed in league play.

Clan match times must be announced and aggreed by both playing clans. There is a 10 minute grace-period beyond which the late team (or team-members) are not allowed to play. Opposing team may choose to allow the addition of late players, but it is at thier descretion. NOTE: this means that if all players in a clan choose to be beyond 10 minutes late the team automatically forefits.
Forefits are allowed at any time and the forefiting team will lose that Clan Match and the result will be recorded as a LOSS.

Taking advantage of commonly known and aggreed upon exploits results in immediate LOSS and is likely cause for expulsion from league.

Map selection:
Time of Coin toss chosen. Team chooses 1/2.
Result determined by random.org:
http://www.random.org/sform.html


Team A gets first map pick.
Team B gets second map pick.
Team B gets first suggestion.

League accepted maps:
Maps played in offical scrims must be accepted by both clans.

Players per team (1-3)

sf_nowhere

Match consists of 2 maps with ( <A> + [B] ) rounds each.

*an issue in Sourceforts version 1.9.0 or if referring to 1.9.1 not required until release.[/code]

EDIT: oh yeah, all that <A> [B] stuff
just give me suggestions for what you want.

lets make it a format say:
[code]
[B]=2
<C>=600
<D>=500
<E>=280
<F>=400

M'kay, now go on and rant.

entRo
03-16-2006, 01:04 AM
Moved to correct forum.

These rules are a bit ambiguous when it comes to fort design. We've already got league rules under works, and I think they're pretty much done.

KGtheway2B
03-16-2006, 05:05 AM
Which forum did I post this into. I thought I did general discussion- if not, my bad :oops:

Well regardless, I think that we should at least be able to have a look at the proposed rules because it seems to me like something that should be put up to discussion.

And as for the ambiguity regarding fort design I honestly feel the primary rule covers it quite clearly and acceptably. IMO the only definible flag defence/ fort entrance that shouldn't be accepted in the league are ones that require trick jumping. Granted, you could follow these rules and still create a so called "trick" entrance, but as long as it's passable without the use of sprint, It will be comparatively easy with the use of sprint. Regarding V's and other commonly hated strategies (motel lemon entrances) we've all seen just how great those are. Besides the fact that the flag is unreachable when dropped into a V, these entrances aren't even that valuable versus anything greater than the average pubbers. This guide is strongly geared towards 1.9.1 and won't probably be balanced for 1.9.0 but it covers the most basic important stuff (building during combat)

And if these "offical" rules are so close to finished just let us at it and we'll gladly polish it up.

craigcaski
03-16-2006, 05:35 AM
you just pull all this out of your ass KG?

"This path may consist of obstacles however the clearing of these obstacles must not require the use of sprint at any time."

your shift key broken or something? :roll: but seriously, whats your rational behind this?

KGtheway2B
03-16-2006, 06:09 AM
It seems strange at first, but if you think about it, it keeps the game playable yet still allows for a lot of creativity with fort design. I'm not saying you can't use the sprint to get to the flag, I'm just saying it's not required- this eliminates pratically impossible tao-like trick jumping entrances. Not only is the rule good at keeping entrances/exits reasonable, it also is VERY verifiable. Anyone that wants to prove that an entrance is following the rules simply has to go thru it and not make any sprint sounds! If one starts adding rules like "No V entrances" or "crawl entrances must be limited to X number of planks" etc. Not only will the forts start looking the same but the rules will be more open to differing opinions
<extreme example:>
"this is a V entrance! cheater!"
"no it's not, its a W entrance noob!"
"rarwrggg-" *head explodes*
"lmao I win!"

TommieV
03-16-2006, 02:23 PM
No sprint? :?

craigcaski
03-16-2006, 04:33 PM
yet still allows for a lot of creativity with fort design.

i disagree, no sprint would be very limiting. im going to guess the league rules do not include this.

JuhorNieger
03-16-2006, 05:23 PM
These don't make any sense and the way I understand them, they are very limiting, I don't see any reason why one would follow the rules if they can't understand them.

Also, I think entRo and the folks have pretty good idea what they will do with the league and any kind of "discussion" wouldn't change their minds about it. :P

KGtheway2B
03-16-2006, 05:37 PM
Perhaps I need to reword them so that they make more sense.
Sprinting is allowed like usual- nothing has changed in that regard, the only limitation for bases is that sprinting is not required to reach the flag. If you look at the huge majority of SF forts, they would be unknowingly following this rule anyhow. The only entrance type that I've seen that requires sprint has been that of trick jumping entrances, which IMO shouldn't be a part of league play.

entRo
03-16-2006, 07:32 PM
Why shouldn't trick jumping be apart of league play? It adds an extra controllable element of skill, and it doesn't upset the rest of the game. If the league is supposed to present a competitive environment, then you'd want to use every skill at your disposal to win matches.

Vann
03-16-2006, 09:42 PM
I'll cry if this is a rule.

-Vann

TommieV
03-16-2006, 09:46 PM
Hard entrances are challenging and fun, I dont see a reason to discard them.

Pastori
03-17-2006, 04:21 PM
Trick jumping ftw. Trick jumping just fits greatly to sf, because then you can take full advantage of the enemy mistakes on fort building. Only thing I would deny is V-entrances.

KGtheway2B
03-17-2006, 04:42 PM
Well it seems I'm alone on this one :cry: Heh, but no problem! Just be sure whatever the actual rules have are clear and not open to interpretation.

entRo
03-17-2006, 10:10 PM
Which is why rules for our game are so difficult to make. There's pretty much no rule regarding building that wont be subjected to he-says-there's-an-entrance, he-says-there-isn't. I think not allowing V-traps are the only way to go, and if teams don't want to build entrances, they don't have to, as they'd be shooting themselves in the foot anyway.

KGtheway2B
03-17-2006, 10:11 PM
How so?

entRo
03-17-2006, 10:14 PM
They wont be able to score, and will probably be forced onto defense while the other team pummels their walls. Remember that base entry is much easier now than it used to be now that engineers can build in combat again, and can set up temporary ramps very quickly.

Many of the best maps don't even require a team to make an entrance, like sf_fronts.

Monty
03-17-2006, 11:19 PM
entro im confused. earlier you said that teams should be able to use every skill and trick jumping is a skill and blah, blah, balh.
Now you say that V traps shouldnt be allowed? They not a skill?

KGtheway2B
03-17-2006, 11:30 PM
Besides, How is a v-entrance any different from not having an entrance at all. In that case why even bother restricting V's?

JuhorNieger
03-17-2006, 11:34 PM
V-TRAP is an exploit, it exploits the quake player physics and makes the player "float" slowly in mid-air, which results in A) easy target B) hard to shoot C) no ability to get out (alive at least) etc.

KGtheway2B
03-17-2006, 11:48 PM
What about those funky crouch tunnels that make you squirm around as you just barely get thru, by that defenition I'd say those are exploits as well. What I'm trying to get at is that by saying something isn't allowed you have to make sure that it is very clear before hand what exactly you are talking about. I would elaborate, but I've got some ideas that I don't exactly want proliferated.

Monty
03-18-2006, 12:27 AM
and the tunnel where your head sticks through the top, and the super high ramp where if you fall on to an angled piece you dont get hurt at all...

entRo
03-18-2006, 12:43 AM
entro im confused. earlier you said that teams should be able to use every skill and trick jumping is a skill and blah, blah, balh.
Now you say that V traps shouldnt be allowed? They not a skill?
There's very little to no skill used in building V-traps.
Besides, How is a v-entrance any different from not having an entrance at all. In that case why even bother restricting V's?
They're lazy and exploitive structures. That alone is enough to restrict them from league use.
What about those funky crouch tunnels that make you squirm around as you just barely get thru, by that defenition I'd say those are exploits as well.
Yea, they are, but that's extremely difficult to enforce. There aren't really different levels of a V's trap-ness, but there are different levels of a funky tunnel's... funkiness (?). What I mean is that there's no clear line as to when a tunnel causes you to glitch around or not. Making a rule against glitchy tunnels will surely lead to a ton of disputes, and lots of ruined games. It's also not feasible to enforce.

What I'm trying to get at is that by saying something isn't allowed you have to make sure that it is very clear before hand what exactly you are talking about. I would elaborate, but I've got some ideas that I don't exactly want proliferated.
Making a rule against V-traps is not ambiguous, but making a rule against glitchy tunnels is.
and the tunnel where your head sticks through the top,
Again, too difficult to enforce and check for. You can't take a screenshot of your own head sticking through a block, and a team shouldn't have to infiltrate a base together during combat just to check for super-low tunnels, when they could be using their time doing more important things.

and the super high ramp where if you fall on to an angled piece you dont get hurt at all...
Nothing wrong with those.

As far as building rules go, I think that at no time should a team have to check the opposing team's base for illegal building techniques or structures. The only way to do this is to allow basically everything, and make exceptions for things like V-traps.

JuhorNieger
03-18-2006, 06:44 AM
what I have found out that glitchy crouch tunnels seem to work and not work at random, so they might not be intentionally made to be glitchy. (what I mean is that sometimes you can't even enter the tunnels, and sometimes you can almoust sprint through them.)

KGtheway2B
03-19-2006, 06:19 AM
They wont be able to score

Not true, I've seen people score lots of times without having an entrance. However, I am beginning to weaken on my support of the "primary rule" and considering the ease of entry and building ramps in 1.9.1 want to instead focus on the fact that there is no reason for V traps to be restricted in league play. I think most would aggree that a "V" trap in ALL cases is easier to get by than a well built wall. In that case why would "v's" be dissallowed. Indeed, they are "easy" to build- yes but so is a wall. And I don't think anyone is against walls here. Everyone claims that they are an "exploit" forcing the player to "float and move slowly" how is that and different from EVERY block in sf. A wall makes you stop; a tunnel makes you crouch and slow down; a ramp makes you go up- and a V makes you float and move slow! It's just part of the game.

I am truly going to hate to see SF league play be filled with matches where no actually passable (I'm talking trick-jumping: and tao will be the first to admit it, his entrances are undefeated) entrances are built and the game degrades into builder wars. That was the original intent of the "primary" rule, and I would like to see SF stay true to its CTF and not simply turn into "yes I touched the flag, we win"

Remember, (quoting KHU i think) SF is: "there's shit in the way," not "theres no way 'round this shit"

TommieV
03-19-2006, 04:12 PM
I think there should be no build restrictions at all, well, when the new version is out. Until then, there should always be an entrance.
Btw, is the block in flag freezing fixed? Because if it wouldnt, that would be my only build restriction, as that is a REAL exploit.

MarineXGEN
03-21-2006, 04:29 PM
As a novice in Source Forts, I kind of find it annoying the sprinting and crazy jumps to get into a flag area. However, I dont see myself in a league so I guess I have no input :P

KGtheway2B
03-21-2006, 10:35 PM
XGEN It doesn't really matter how great you are at the game, NO-ONE ever gets past those. That's why my opinion is either have no rules regarding entrances at all, or find something that works 100% of the time.

MarineXGEN
03-23-2006, 04:33 PM
XGEN It doesn't really matter how great you are at the game, NO-ONE ever gets past those. That's why my opinion is either have no rules regarding entrances at all, or find something that works 100% of the time.

From my experience playing -- I found it most fun when the opposing team COULD get the flag and out but didn't because the fort was made well. I hate stupid v-traps with a passion. It's a glitch in the game and very annoying. I've always been fond of a very nice defensive setup (double layered walls, ect) that took teamwork to tear down and also entrances to the flag that was challenging, but not tricky or glitchy (such as v-traps or to get out you need to run, jump, crouch and do a lil bit of this and that.)

Honestly, if there is no change in hell of a person getting the opposing sides flag -- there is really no point in playing.

KGtheway2B
03-23-2006, 04:38 PM
So it looks like I've got one person that might aggree with my proposed "primary rule" (I've really got to find a better name)